Editor’s Note: This entry is by today’s guest commentator, Brock Sund. Brock’s reply has been edited and formatted slightly for clarity. The original can be found in the comments on this entry.
Mark,
First off thanks for the email. It showed that this can be a debate on beliefs rather than a personal argument. I never meant for that to happen, and I hope it didn’t come across that way. I actually respect people who can back up their arguments; it shows passion. So I guess here are my answers to the three questions that you posted.
Well, first off, I have to say again that I am not being judgemental on any specific sin or problem (abomination or whatever). I am simply saying that, as part of the church, we should want to hold each other accountable. How else can we grow and get better? Jesus corrected and told his disciples of their wrong doings and so must his church … lovingly and respectfully. This growing is called SANCTIFICATION for those other than Mark (as I’m sure he already knows that one).
1) When you said Leviticus 20:13 teaches homosexuality is a sin, were you right or wrong?
I will still say that homosexuality is a sin. I don’t care if the KJV says “abomination” and “worthy of death.” I myself think that “worthy of death” means spiritual death: you know, that whole eternal hell thing which is reached by any sin NOT JUST HOMOSEXUALITY.
I will also repeat in saying that no sin repented and cleansed by Christ’s blood is too much … (I hope not, or I’m going to burn). I am no closer to good or perfect than the next straight, gay, black, white, or Blockbuster customer; we all need Jesus just the same.
2) When you cited Leviticus 20:13, did you embrace the entire Holiness Code … or did you hypocritically pull out just one small part of it that supports your agenda?
In regards to the holiness code: yes, I pulled out just one aspect of it, but weren’t we just talking about one aspect? And of course I don’t follow that code any better than the next guy, but I have found that solution.
3) Earlier, you said, “To not preach and teach what the Bible says is to make the church a hypocritical society.” So, given the very literal death penalties outlined in Leviticus 20:13, does your church put all its homosexual, foul-mouthed, and adulterous members to death … or is your church a ?hypocritical society??
Of course not! (I’m not going to fall into that trap.) We do however preach that all sin is punishable by death (hell), do you agree? If so, and if we also agree that all men are sinners, none is without sin, not one … where else would you want to be other than the church that teaches of “THE WAY ” to TURN FROM (repent) your sin and have an opportunity at paradise?
In regards to the “Scrapture”, which you defined as picking little “scraps” of Scripture: I don’t believe there are little scraps. Do you believe that all Scripture is God Breathed, and written by God? If so to call any of it little scraps is kinda blasphemous, don’t ya think?
I also don’t take any context out of scripture and mold them around myself or my beliefs. I simply take what they say and accept it as truth. I used to steal, drink, sleep around, do drugs, all that good stuff. Could I remodel scripture to where those sins didn’t look so bad and make myself feel a little better. Sure! Could I justify them? Sure I could, because even though I don’t do those things anymore, I am still a terrible sinner and still have a sinful nature which constantly lies to me and tells me I’m a good guy. Scripture tells me otherwise. If we were good, we wouldn’t need a Redeemer or Savior, and I do.
In my final point (until next time), Jesus said, “If anyone would come after me, he MUST deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow after me” (Luke 9:23).
Does this not mean that we should be willing to give up anything for Christ? Does this not mean that there is not any lifestyle, decision, sin, friendship, or anything that is above this command? True, none of us follow this command or any other completely, but just because we are not perfect should we accept that and not try to be better? No!
We must, however, look at ourselves and say, “Am i willing to give up “—-” for Jesus?” If we answer no, then hasn’t that thing become a false idol? The last time I checked having false idols was a sin … right?
Mark, I really do appreciate the opportunity to express my views on this page. I can’t tell you how admirable it is of you to allow someone of such strong opposing views to continue speaking on your site. I hope this can continue for both the good of us and those reading this.
Brock
Brave to reply, and honorable that you answered the exact questions which you were asked, but something’s missing in this debate and until it’s addressed, I think it won’t go anywhere.
The question is, if you can’t use Leviticus as your basis for determining what a sin is, what is your basis? I agree with you about being willing to give up anything for Christ, but it’s unfair and unloving to simply refer to someone’s sexual orientation as a flase idol. It implies that it is no different from a bad habit, addiction, or treasured object.
It would be like someone telling you to stop being attracted to girls. Sure, being attracted to girls feels completely natural to you, and nothing else makes sense to you, but you have to stop. You must, without reason or a how-to book, live a life that is exactly opposite of what seems natural to you. And is it worse than other sins? According to who? What, if any, implications can be drawn about it from scripture?
Simply put, why can’t someone who is gay also be a bible-believing christian? A dear friend of mine, I am convinced, is a true believer. Her attraction to women took her completely by surprise, well into her adult years. She didn’t want it and would have a much easier life without it. It has brought her much misery, but she cannot imagine being any other way. Could you look her in the eye and say that she can’t be a christian if she doesn’t give up her “false idol?” No, I don’t have the answer either, but I’m sure that it’s just not that simple.
I don’t know Mark but I don’t think anything less than a solid biblical answer to those kinds of things is going to mean squat.
Thanks.